Maximizing Revenue: Unifying Marketing and Sales for Success.

[00:00:00] Alex Brown: Today we're continuing our conversation about Account Based Marketing. And joining me to do that are Terry Flaherty, Senior Research Director at Forrester Research in the Serious Designs product line. Terry, did I get that right?

[00:00:29] Terry Flaherty: Hi guys. Yeah, and close. So Forrester and then in Demand Practice in Forrester, yeah. Focused on revenue process and ABM and all those fun things.

[00:00:40] Alex Brown: All this stuff that we're talking about today and Barbie Mattie, Senior Vice President of Growth Strategy here at Iron Horse. Hi everybody. So I'm really excited that the two of you are joining us today because ABM and all that stuff is incredibly important to our audience. It's something we talk about a lot, but Barbie, we've also got some newish data from our own research that I know you want to talk about.
So I'm going to be quiet and let you take over.

[00:01:07] Barbie Mattie: Thank you, Alex. Terry, thank you so much for joining and I'm so excited. I have been a friend and colleague of yours for almost a decade now. This is the first time I get to present with you and I'm so excited. So thank you. Thank you. I just wanted to briefly set the stage about some of the data that we said we were going to share if you were involved in any of the promotional or material around this webinar.
And that's Iron Horse’, ABM Effectiveness Survey, and I'm not going to show any slides on the data. I mean, why, why would I take the focus away from our amazing guest? So the data that I'm sharing is available. It's ungated on IronHorse.io - I think somebody is going to put links in the chat while we're going.
And there's just a bunch of things out there, but I wanted to just briefly summarize, because this is kind of the basis for our conversation around buying groups today and ABM. And so what we did is wesurveyed over 400 B2B sellers and marketers. in U.S. companies that had 100 million to 5 billion in revenue.
And we specifically kept those boundaries in because sometimes when we look at data with these large enterprise organizations, it tends to skew things. As a proxy, we considered effectiveness as annual revenue growth of 11 to 40 percent year over year, and that's what we're calling high growth. Over two thirds of the respondents indicated they hold interest in ultimate accountability for the strategic decision making from a RACI perspective.
The key industries include high tech, professional services, manufacturing, healthcare, financial services, and HR. Okay. So that's the background and the methodology and the results are just uncanny because sales and marketing for, from high growth companies are completely aligned on: how ABM is defined, which is the first step to doing an effective ABM approach.
They're aligned on the primary objective of ABM, which is to drive better sales and marketing alignment with efficiency, more measurable ROI and cost containment. They're aligned on the top barriers that are preventing even more alignment, which are that: target accounts assigned to sellers don't match what marketing is targeting.
And also there's a, just an overall lack of account planning to be able to pivot from outbound to inbound. They're aligned on the top drawbacks: which were, it highlighted a dependency on the data accuracy and there are lots of challenges around scaling for personalization, which means more dependency on content.
They were even aligned on what the top benefits are. And they were, they were both aligned that the top benefits of doing an ABM approach is better alignment, revenue efficiency, and customer satisfaction. All of those are good things to realize as benefits. And finally the way the question, the survey was worded, we asked sales and marketing us the same set of questions, and then we branched off and we asked sales, what are the top things that you need from marketing in order to be more effective at ABM.
And then we asked marketing, what are the top five things you need from sales in order to be more effective? And they both need the same four things, which is just crazy. So they need more planning. They need better data. They need content and they need account insights. Whoo. So that's my little preamble.
Terry, my first question for you. Are you surprised by those results? And if not, why?

[00:04:46] Terry Flaherty: So, yes, no. And I think that the yes is a ABM Becoming a lot more mature. Right. And a cornerstone of ABM, it is being able to drive insight or leverage insight, drive relevance to make sure we're aligned on who we're targeting and what kind of experience we're trying to drive, right?
So, I think we're seeing a lot of alignment now, especially at the account level, be able to say - Hey, these are the accounts that we think are the right accounts for us to target AND this is how we want to engage and what the programs look like to do that. But, I think there's different degrees, if you will, of alignment.
And so we've been like huge evangelists for a long time on thinking about alignment, maybe in a slightly more extensive dimension, and we're starting to see organizations move to that. And you know, so I, so I've been just as a background, I've been doing a lot of research on the concept of buying groups now for seven years.
Right. And seven years ago, we came out and said, Hey, we need to think, stop thinking about MQL, start thinking about buying groups and opportunities. And if you think about sort of the timing of when we started that conversation, that was right at the prime time of everybody being really fascinated with this new concept of ABM.
And isn't this really cool? Right. And we came up with this analogy that says, You know, if our, if our goal, whole, whole goal, if I'm saying that three times, if our whole goal is trying to drive the most relevance and drive the best experience, for sure, right, we don't want to focus on the individual person, the MQL, right, because that's too small, and we have all these years of research now that says - Hey, when, when B2B organizations make a buying decision there's a group of people involved in it.
And depending upon the complexity and deal size and things like that it could be 15, 20 people, or it could be two or three people, but you know, anything of any substance is being bought by buying groups of individuals. So, you know, that one individual and getting all excited about the engagement of that one individual often sort of is a false promise.
And because they may not be reflecting sort of the insight of the or the needs of the company, they're just reflecting they're interested in their board and they're checking out this new topic or whatever, right? The other side of the coin, right? And here's where I think, you know, I think about sort of relevance and more alignment.
And you know, one of our big, I don't want to say criticisms, but one of our big sort of focal points when we think about accounts is: accounts don't buy, right? Accounts are legal entities. Right. But the things that buy are actually people, right, working together to solve a business problem or a buying group.
Right. And so we, we started with this analogy, the Goldilocks analogy that says, Hey, you know, people, that's too small. Accounts are too big. The just right is kind of understanding his concept of the buying group and the opportunity that aligns to right. So having said that, now coming back to alignment, I think there's huge opportunity still in driving better alignment of how we think about the buying group, how we think about the buying group roles.
And the really big change is, you know, ABM says, Hey, we're going to target, but there's also this whole sort of dimension of roles and responsibilities and how we're going to drive engagement. And I think one of the major shifts that are critical in ABM, just critical in the line in general, it's kind of the recognition that, you know, we've been so, so sort of centered on this concept of marketing does something in favor of the defense, maybe something in favor of the defense to fail.
Right. And that's horrendous. That's horrible. That introduces so many bad practices. ABvM starts to solve that for sure. They say, Hey, we're going to work together more collaboratively, but I think sort of the opportunity for better alignment is more detailed, yeah, we're aiming at the account Acme.
There's actually six opportunities that we think exist within Acme that we want to target. This opportunity is a very complex opportunity and there's 10 buying group roles involved. This opportunity is maybe easier, the low risk opportunity. So there's four buying group members engaged or required.
And how do we drive that alignment then to, Of those 10 buying group members, what's our strategy for how we're going to drive engagement and interaction? What's our insight we have on what kind of coverage we have and what we're missing? And what are the micro programs or the specific actions we're going to take to do things like try to drive additional buying group expansion or go find that economic buyer and target that economic buyer?
Through a combination of marketing and BDR and sales. So I think we're making great progress, but I think there's still huge, huge progress that can be made. Yeah. The more insight I understand about the buyer and the buying group and the opportunity and the signals that are being produced from that, the better we're all going to be.
[00:10:23] Barbie Mattie: Well, I don't know if you picked up on this, but I heard a new blog for you as you were saying that buying groups are just right. They're the baby bear in the golden area.
So, you know, establishing the fact that high growth sales and marketing organizations are just truly aligned. Would you be surprised if I told you that when we peeled back the data and took growth rate out of it, that the real disconnect around alignment and ABM is within sales and marketing between the executives and the management.
Why do you think that is?

[00:11:03] Terry Flaherty: So, I'm going to answer it in the context of one of the big disconnects we see in organizations like at, at, at the mid level director, even VP level. I think everybody now understands, hey, this buying group is really important and we want to focus on that and it makes all kinds of sense.
But the resistance, the number one thing that is still kind of keeping people from changing to, you know, Kind of redefining the revenue process and adopting ABM, but also adopting buying groups as culture, right? And where that culture comes from, most of the time, it is the executive level, right? And so we've seen, you know, organizations, I just had a conversation with a client last week, right?
And I think this is the epitome of that disconnect between executives and sort of the rest of the organization. So, this organization, right, they've adopted, they call it ABX, right? But it's ABM and buying groups moving forward. They now 100 percent fully support buying groups and they're less worried about MQL volume.
They're not concerned, at least pieces of the organization are concerned about MQL volume anymore. What they're interested in is how many opportunities are we engaging in? What kind of coverage do we have against those opportunities from buying group members perspective? How many interactions we've seen?
All the right things that they should be focused on. As a result of that, their pipeline has never been higher. I mean, the pipeline is way above projections. They can show number of interactions that are occurring in the number of people are engaging in which they never had insight, but at the executive level, the big disconnect, the CFO is trying basically ready to throw the CMO under the bus because one of their important metrics, what they think is one of their important metrics.
Two things, right? One is MQL volume, but the really scary metric, dangerous, damaging metric is marketing pipeline. And what's percent of pipeline is marketing sourcing. And so everything is rosy. Everything greats pipelines. Great. All this interaction with the CFO is going, wait a second. You know, all that's happening probably somewhere else because I'm looking at marketing source pipeline and you've gone down 22 percent compared to where you were the last quarter, you're broken.
And it's like just changing that culture of, of kind of recognizing that. We're changing the process. We're changing the way that we think about measurement. We're changing the culture and getting an endorsement at the executive level. That that's like the big roadblock often in this transformation.

[00:13:49] Barbie Mattie: So it's a top down change is what I'm hearing you say.

[00:13:53] Terry Flaherty: It's going to change in both directions. Yeah, exactly. But, but I think, you know, like, like I said, one the things we're finding is so number one, I'm moving, moving to ABM, right. And, and moving to buying groups that's introducing a fair amount of change in the organization.
That's changing the focus, changing the way we work, changing all that culture. We have to get consensus across everybody. Right. And so like - marketing can't drive ABM. I think that's really obvious, but I still see clients that go, Oh, if marketing is doing ABM, how sales feel about it? Well, sales is upset because they're not getting MQLs anymore.
Right. And it's like, wait, we got it. This, this views disconnect. So, you know, we have to have alignment across all those different areas of the business on these are the changes that we're going to adopt. Right. And so very often that, that. strategy of the need for change and what it's going to look like is coming from the bottom up, but it has to be embraced and, and, and, and evangelized and supported from the top down too, right?
So that's why I say it's really kind of a bottoms, bottoms up, top down synchronization that has to occur.

[00:15:05] Barbie Mattie: Have you, have you seen any specific catalysts that's kind of facilitated that culture change? I mean, is it a moment of desperation where it's like, we've got to do this or we're out of business, or is it.
You know, fresh blood comes in and this is the new vision or somewhere in between?

[00:15:26] Terry Flaherty: right? And it's been really interesting. And, and, and so, and again, my answer to this in the context of this transformation from MQL to buying groups, which we think is crucial for ABM, right? Most of my conversations that start out on that come from sort of three different perspectives.
Right? And for me, right? So I've been this little background. I've been a serious decisions enforcer for 11 years. I've been focused on revenue management process, and I do a huge amount of work around the concept of benchmarks and do a huge amount of work helping organizations kind of leverage those benchmarks to be able to then say, Hey, here's what I should be doing.
The quote unquote benchmark. Here's where I'm at. Why do I have differences across different stages in my revenue process? And what's causing those? And how do I fix it? So that's been, you know, sort of a major initiative focused on that around, we call it waterfall diagnostics, right? So we start this conversation a lot of times off of benchmarks, right?
I want to measure and understand how my performance is today and how is it compared to the benchmark goals. And virtually every time there's somewhere in the process it's broken. It's very, very rarely does an organization go, Oh, You know, number one, we're driving all the efficiency that we should be in our process and we're hitting revenue goals, right?
That combination rarely happens. But what that benchmark conversation leads to is, okay, the data is telling us we have problems. We kind of knew it, but now we have evidence that data is telling us we're having problems. We need to figure out why, right? And the first knee jerk reaction or first response often is, okay, well, we're gonna look at this process and try to tighten things up.
We'll get better service level agreements in place or clear definitions or all the fundamental blocking and tackling training or is my messaging working or all that, right? And that's All important, right? But if I'm lead centric, as opposed to thinking about accounts and buying groups, I'm missing the real sort of value of making a change in the revenue process.
So I can gain some efficiency, but there's a limit if I'm only thinking about MQLs because an MQL at the end of day really only represents probably 3 percent of the insight that I have about an opportunity in the account that I'm not leveraging. Right. And so we, you know, strongly evangelize and say, okay, I have to have good fundamentals.
I have to have service level agreements and all these things need to be in place. But then I need to change the focus and the focus really ought to be that I'm thinking about number one, aligning accounts. But number two, as importantly, if not more importantly, aligning on the opportunities that exist within the account and changing my focus on my process to opportunities and buying groups as a critical thing.
And. So now tying back to your question, one of the things that's been interesting. So, so, you know, like I said, we've been telling this story for seven years, for five years, people thought we were crazy.
It's like, Oh, that's too hard. Oh, we're made way too complex for that. We can't possibly do it. I mean, but it's been, I would say in the last 18 months, we've seen a pretty big inflection point that's occurring. Right. And this whole transformation away from the MQL into something bigger, more strategic, a hundred percent real right now, we just came out of summit and, and you know, every session we did kind of relayed this standing room only crowds.
It's a groundswell. of organizations making this transformation. And part of it is because technology is improved, right? And I can start to identify and listen and act on signals and insight that I just didn't have. But the other part of it, which I think is what's really sort of accelerating the change.
And also, I think the catalyst for culture change. Is the business impact that we're seeing when we change the focus away from them to else,

[00:19:40] Terry Flaherty: that's what's huge. And, and, and you almost, you know, so number one, I, I haven't been more excited. I've been doing this for 11 years now, as an analyst and 70 years talking about buying groups.
And, you know, it's like this is the payoff of five years of: are you crazy, right? And we're not crazy. And it really is delivering business impact, and it's delivering business impact in a couple of different ways, right? And so number one is there's a huge difference if I pass. You know, if I think about my mark, my process and I go, okay, marketing is generating demand and then BDR is going to qualify and then we're going to send it to sales and they're going to pick up from there, right?
My old process, I'd send one person, right? And that would be the qualified thing that would get to sales. And, you know, they, it might be attached to an opportunity. It might be a contact, but the BDR is passing one person to sales. And they're setting up very often the discovery meeting for sales. So that's all nice, right?
If I look at the conversion rate from that discovery meeting to closed one, where there's one person involved, it's, it's okay, right? But if I can leverage insight and give sales way more insight about here, here's all the knowledge we have about this buying group for this opportunity in this account.
And we've been able to verify through the BDR and through marketing that these three people, for example, out of the eight people in the buying group, we've verified and identified these three people are verified members of the buying group. And that's what I'm delivering to sales. And even better, those three people are coming to the discovery meeting.
The win rate, when we can verify a buying group, as opposed to that single person is dramatically different. Right. And it's kind of interesting and I'm working on models and all this, but and talking to lots of clients and at a minimum the conversion rate from that discovery meeting to close one at a minimum is 25%.
Relative 25 percent improvement. So if I was a 10 percent now I'm 12 and a half percent. Right. And that sounds like, well, that's not big deal, but actually when you run the numbers, right. Increasing your conversion rate by relative 25%, it is pretty huge. Right.
And, and that's on the low end, right? So we have we give out awards to, to various levels of clients for, in this case, it was program of the year.
And the company that won the program of the year this year was company called Sheer ID, and they just happened to support ABM and buying groups and all this. Their win win rate was like 52% relative improvement. Right. Okay.

[00:22:31] Barbie Mattie: That, that's worth doing. .

[00:22:35] Terry Flaherty: Oh yeah. And, and, and then I also have other clients, right?
Yeah. That are talking 257% increase in conversion sufficiency and, and one that's. Big, big brand name, multi billion dollar organization, 400% improvement in conversion efficiency and win rate. So, so are you

[00:22:55] Barbie Mattie: also looking at velocity?

[00:22:57] Terry Flaherty: Sure. Yeah.

[00:23:00] Barbie Mattie: Velocity? Average conversion? about average deal size? All of the above?

[00:23:03] Terry Flaherty: all those things.
Right. And the analogy I always like to use is. You know, if I think about passing MQL and we're playing football, right, we're starting on our goal line, we've got 100 yards to go to get a touchdown. If I'm giving somebody insight on multiple buying group members, and that's what they're receiving, and I'm giving them a lot of other signals about the level of engagement and interaction, I'm starting at the 40 yard line instead of the goal line, right?
And so I'm going to get a lot more touchdowns, and I'm going to do it quicker. Just because we, we see, right, then leverage all this insight. So yeah, I mean, the, the velocity, I think I've seen 25, 35, 40 percent improvement in velocity, just because I'm starting from a different point, right. We leverage this insight.
And that in alone, like if sales would come to somebody and say, Hey, we have to increase our revenue from kind of our marketing supply flow of the funnel. That has to go up by 50 percent next year. Right. Right. The initial reaction always is going to be, holy cow, I need like 40, 50, 60, and that's not the casing.
It's, it's, it's now basically going, okay, I need to change the process. I may need to change some technology. But most importantly, I need to change the culture and I need to be collaborative and I need to be focused on leisure, focused on accounts and opportunities and buying groups, as opposed to thinking about that MQL.

[00:24:29] Barbie Mattie: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, at the end of the day, you're, you're at a company to help make them money. And so what. And, you know, as people start to pivot towards this buying groups is, is this pivot more impactful, impactful on acquisition, revenue, retention, revenue, or expansion revenue or all of the above or, you know, please elaborate.

[00:24:53] Terry Flaherty: Yeah, I, I, I would say. So, so one thing is we introduced a new version of our waterfall on 2021. We call it the B2B Rev Waterfall, right? And that was kind of the first time, right? And that was one of the first times where we really started to stress the importance that And the significance that cross sell opportunities and upsell opportunities and acquisition opportunities and renewal opportunities, they all behave differently and in the past, so that so many clients would just blend all of that together, right?
And, the reason I want to separate and have different lenses is because the conversion rates can be different very often, even the process and the resources I'm using in the process are going to be different. So, for example, there's this big debate, and I think it's a religious argument of if I'm seeing signals and interaction from somebody that is an existing customer and existing buying group.
Do I involve the BDR in that process or I just go directly to sales, right? And there's pros and cons are both, but that's the decisions that I need to make is how are we going to handle this? So, so now let's bring that back to the question of buying group. I think, I think one of the nuances that's maybe a little bit different between like cross sell and acquisition versus upsell upsell is I'm selling something else in the existing buying group is I don't need to go find the bind group again, right?
And, so I, yeah, I could probably argue that. You know, the concept of buying groups is really important in trying to identify and verify and expand the buying group. And if I don't have them, then I'm going to do things differently. There's a buying group, no matter whether, whether we think they're, or they think they're across the board.
So there's a buying group that's involved. It's just what level of insight do I have? And what kind of relationship do I have? And an acquisition and cross sell is different buying groups. So I have to change my program or expand my program strategy to make sure I'm going and acquiring the buying groups where I don't need to do that necessarily upsell over.
So I don't know. I don't know if it's important, but just kind of recognition that I need to treat them differently, right? And they're going to behave differently. And one is going to require a buying group expansion. The other one doesn't.

[00:27:18] Barbie Mattie: Yeah, I always found that the path to revenue with the least amount of friction was starting with retention, then upsell, then cross sell, then net new.

[00:27:27] Terry Flaherty: 100%, 100%.

[00:27:30] Barbie Mattie: Well,

[00:27:31] Terry Flaherty: and here's, you know, kind of deviating a little bit. So, so at Summit you know, it's like every four or five years we introduce something new. Right. And people were starting to panic this year because, and then we kind of maybe teased it a little bit on, Hey, we haven't sort of changed the waterfall since 2021.
And it's 2024. And yeah, and we didn't change the waterfall. Waterfall still is absolutely perfect. Yeah. Perfectly designed for, you know, discrete decision based direct sales. Right. But what we did sort of recognize. Is that, you know, very often when organizations think about the revenue process right now, they think about the revenue process as marketing BDR sales.
Right. But to your point, Hey, you know, it should be easier. to go sell, you know, it should be the easiest to retain. It should be the second easiest to upsell into something else in that buying group and then upsell, you know, cross sell into another buying group where I can use that first buying group as reference as reference.
And then And that's a hundred percent true, unless I completely screwed up the implementation of solution one. And all of a sudden it goes from the easiest possible. And let's hope that the cross sell each other, right? So one of the things that we recognized and kind of launched this year is the importance of customer success in this whole thing, the whole revenue process.
And many of our clients like 75%, 80 percent of their revenue is coming from existing customers. And it's so critical that - you know, when, when we sell something to somebody, we're, we're making kind of an implicit promise of the value that that buyer is going to get from, from buying that solution, we better deliver on it, right?
Because if we don't, it's going to be really hard to convince them to take a chance on solution two or solution three. Right. And so one of the things we did at Summit was kind of lost this concept of number one. You know, the waterfall mind groups are important, but what we're really driving at the end of the day is what we're calling revenue process transformation.
That's our big umbrella of, hey, we're trying, you know, we're under pressure to grow. We're under pressure from a budget perspective. We got to be a lot more efficient, right? And we also recognize that Buyer is in way more control now than they've ever been. Right. I mean, you've probably seen lots of research from various vendors that says, Hey, the, the, yeah, the buyer doesn't even want to talk to the vendor until they're 75, 80 percent of the way through their buying process right now.
Right. So, so we did the, that, that then, and, and, and basically that's when we think they're an MQL. And if we're starting our running process, when, when somebody becomes a quote unquote MQL, we lost it, right. Right. So, we need to move to a world where. Yeah, we're really thinking about signals and driving engagement.
At the signal level earlier in the process and not be dependent on the end. Well, yeah,

[00:30:40] Barbie Mattie: I totally agree. Back to your point earlier, you said that there was like a certain - 

[00:30:46] Alex Brown: Oh, I'll hop in real quick. We are running out of time. So if you've got like one last, like, Oh, wow. Great. Big question to go up on. I want to respect our audience's time a little bit.

[00:31:01] Barbie Mattie: Okay. Let me see. I guess, you know, in respect of our audience's time to Alex's point, Harry, I know, I know you've been kind of doing this Buying group circuit on across a bunch of different webinars. And I mean, personally, I think this is the third or fourth one that I've attended.
And, in the multiple conversations that you're having over and over, is there, like, are you realizing, is there any advice or information that you've like. Oh, that's been missing from my advice this whole time. Or have you just been putting it all out there and saying, you know, this is exactly what, what needs to happen and how it has to happen.

[00:31:42] Terry Flaherty: So, so what, that's a really interesting question. And I, and I think. I was just at a customer advisory board that was focused on buying groups. And, and we had probably a dozen companies with this vendor that, that came in and talked about buying groups. And the thing that was really interesting to me that I didn't recognize necessarily was.
We talk about culture, but we also talk like the one of our clients was like the technology, the technology is easy, right? That's not the problem. Now, the biggest problem is people, right? And the change management that has to occur. And that's 95 percent of the effort is figuring out what the people need to do and then convincing the people that they should be doing that.
And it makes sense for them to do it and that they'll actually do it. Right. And that's where they're spending 95 percent of their time is on kind of internal process, but more importantly, internal change management. To make sure that, that those changes really do get embraced. And that, to me, that's been the biggest kind of, oh my, and take away because, you know, I grew up as an engineer and I was kind of like, Hey, we have a new process and new process works.
Everybody's going to adopt it, right? It's our new process. And it's just the, the, the, the, the effort, the magnitude of the effort to get people to be part of the, of the team and be part of the consensus and really adopt it. It can't be trivialized and I think I kind of just internally trivialize it for a few years. Yeah.
Build it and they will come and it's like in reality it's build it and then they're gonna be like, maybe they'll come, they'll come reluctantly and we need to make sure we, we get them to come in the right way and Yeah. And, and support them staying,

[00:33:44] Barbie Mattie: right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, that's a great answer and I'm, I'm.
Surprised that I'm not surprised that that's the answer.

[00:33:56] Terry Flaherty: Yeah, I just, yeah, I just naively kind of go, Oh, this is an improved process. Everybody's going to just inherently embrace it and understand it and grab it. And that's been a fault my whole life on everything. That's, it's better. Everybody's going to do it.
And it's all around, it's all around people and change management. It's the hard part.

[00:34:14] Alex Brown: Well, on, on that note, I think that's a good one to wrap up with. Danielle in the chat says the biggest problem is people is something that needs to be both on a T-shirt and a coffee mug. So if either of you want to sell that go for it.
If you need help setting up an Etsy shop, we've got people who know how to do that over here as well. Like I said, thank you both so much for joining us and for talking us through. All of this stuff. Is there anything either of you would like to plug? Barbie, you work at Iron Horse - Iron Horse.io
I can do that. But Terry, what about you?

[00:34:46] Terry Flaherty: I, I mean, it's obviously forced. I'm a Forester, so we'd love everybody to be Forester clients, but I do a lot of just work and, and tell this story on things like LinkedIn. So. Join me and become part, connect with me on LinkedIn. And I've got a lot of blog series that tell this story.
So if you're not able or ready to go Forrester yet, but you want to, you know, kind of just get in touch. Participate in this conversation and see what we're saying. Join me at LinkedIn and you can read all the things that we're doing there.

[00:35:17] Barbie Mattie: And you do polling questions and it's very engaging and it's enjoyable

[00:35:24] Terry Flaherty: fun analogies and all that stuff. 

[00:35:28] Alex Brown: And Barbie, I don't want to give you short shrift. So should people also follow you on LinkedIn?

[00:35:34] Barbie Mattie: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I'm, I'm not as frequent as I should be, but I am trying to get better.

[00:35:42] Alex Brown: Perfect. I so rarely have things to plug, but I have one today. We do coffee breaks once a month and next month for June, they're letting me do it with no guests.
It's just me the whole time talking about AI. It's going to be a train wreck, but like in a good way registrations for that are open later today. So keep an eye out for those. I hope you'll join - Just me and we'll see how it goes. But Barbie, Terry, thank you both so much for your time again today and everybody who joined us.
Thank you. And coffee breaks over. Let's get back to work. Thanks everybody.

[00:36:22] Terry Flaherty: Thanks guys.